From Prep Center To Powerhouse

Blair Forrest 0:09

Okay, guys, so for those of you watching, I am building luminous. I'm a really good generalist in a lot of things. FBA, Amazon. I you know, at my at my last company, we did sell for Philip Prime. So like I I understand it, but I'm not as deep as you. So there's a couple things I just like I've I've I have genuine curiosity around. So, Blair, first off, what is AMZ Prep? What do you guys do? Like, what is the what is your core offering? Yeah, so just for for anyone listening, so so and you mentioned sell for fill prime, which is super cool, which we won't be able to get into. Okay. AMZ Prep has become almost like a logistics powerhouse, but we we dominate the Amazon space. That is like our niche, that's our core. We become more of a call like an omnichannel fulfillment partner. So we're doing, you know, end-to-end delivery logistics. So if a brand sells on Amazon, their D2C, Shopify, long-term vision is two-day experience globally. Okay. And in the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, wherever the brand's customers are, we want to be able to offer two-day prime like experience.

Jared Ward 1:07

Okay. So so you, because I know there's like prep center businesses, and there's obviously three PLs. So you're all of that. And your your aim is to give the the same two-day prime experience across any channels. Yeah, like any part of the world.

AMZ Prep’s Software Advantage

Blair Forrest 1:19

The way they think about it is like we need to be able to enable when we first started, we were focused on our core becoming like a prep center. Okay. And I think as we've evolved as a company, we need to be able to support wherever the brand's marketplaces are. So brands that maybe initially started off on Amazon, as you've seen too, like they become an omnichannel present brand, right? That that's a modern commerce business that's not just supporting that. So I think where we grew out of becoming what was more of like an Amazon prep service, where literally our entire goal was like we prep products, we send it to the Amazon FBA. That was a very core business. As we expanded the types of brands that we're working with, like they sell everywhere. So if we can't support that, though. You were the go-to. AMZ Prep was the go-to in Canada, like for Amazon Prep, right? We we pioneered this called like prep world, right? Like at the time when we entered this space, they were three PLs and there was a big warehouse and companies. There wasn't like this word prep center wasn't really a thing. It wasn't that now it's evolved that there's actually like a that is an industry on its own, which is like a prep company, or there's prep centers, there's prep warehouses. So we're very early there, but now you know, we're full-fledged logistics company. That's the core.

Jared Ward 2:25

Something I find fascinating because for for Luminous, a lot of inbound leads are prep centers and they come in and what they guess what they ask us. Like, basically, is Luminous a software for prep centers? So basically, like, can you have it? Is that is there an API from Luminous into a bunch of different Amazon accounts that gives you visibility, auto replenishes? So AMZ prep, I didn't know this. You guys, but a big part of your differentiation is you have software for that. You have your own proprietary software.

Blair Forrest 2:51

We built it very early. So we we were the first technology in the call, like the Amazon FBA prep space. This is like 2020, 2021, because like the prep world is really like this is niche, super niche, right? But the prep centers, like that is a very segmented industry and it is operated predominantly off Google Sheets. So when we first started our company, like the reason you can't use like a logic or a ship here or whatever it is, is like it's not built for this in and out workflow. So the challenge with prep centers and the challenge with us when we were growing is like product in is immediately coming product out. It's it's more of like a crosstalk situation. Yeah. And like the modern inventory workflow is like you have to inbound, you have to formally receive, and then you have to send back out in like individual pieces.

Jared Ward 3:32

And then also this concept of one to like one one bucket of inventory into many different Amazon FBA accounts.

Blair Forrest 3:39

On top of that, there's also this thing of like bundling, which is a whole other workflow, right? Like product in is not product out, right? So a brand might be sending us a hundred different candies, which is a thousand in, but then we're gonna be multi-pack in packaging, which is like a hundred out. And Amazon needs it. That entire workflow, on top of having to create shipping plans. So our first like iteration was like, we were operating off Google Sheets, we have access to their seller central. Okay. Uh, someone would email us just like, hey, we're sending you a thousand items. We'd update it on a Google, we'd a thousand Google Sheets across a thousand merchants.

Jared Ward 4:13

Wow.

Blair Forrest 4:13

We had that going and we just type it in and we'd be like, okay, we'll re-receive 30. And then we go to their Amazon, we'd log in, we'd create a shipping plan, produce the labels, weigh the boxes, and then send it back out. Versus now, we've automated the entire we've our entire technology was built around solving that for us. But long term, we'll we'll solve it for the prep centers too. But you know, charity starts at home. We had to, we had to optimize our workflow. It was just, it was unsustainable.

Decoding Amazon AWD And AGL

Jared Ward 4:37

That's amazing. Okay, so like early 2020s, you guys are the go-to. You really pioneered the prep space for Amazon. Sure. You guys crush it, that any brand that needs that. Okay, so help me help me understand. Okay. Because Amazon has come out with we were one of the first integrations into AWD. What is AWD? Like, why did they start? You know, what's AWD?

Blair Forrest 4:56

So Amazon is just naturally working their way at the supply chain. So the reason that AWD got initially placed there was that. So for context, Amazon AWD, that's their Amazon warehousing program. So think of Amazon as their FBA facilities, but now they have their AWD facilities. Okay. FBA is optimizing for inventory training. And they're two separate facilities? Two completely separate facilities. Think of the FBA warehouses, which there's hundreds across the country. FBA warehouses, there's picking bins, there's automation. It's all like bins and racking. So picture like a more formal 3PL. If you've seen it with the bins and so forth, versus when you look at AWD, think of it as like raw space. It's racks and pallets. That's it. There's no picking bins. It's meant for an entirely different workflow, which is the replenish Amazon FBA warehouses.

Jared Ward 5:43

Got it. Okay, okay. So in they're trying to compete with prep centers. It's like, hey, they they notice people like AMZ prep are just crashing in. They're like, you know what? Like we can do that. AW, just send your stuff to AWD. We'll forward it on. Yeah. So what's the pro what's the problem?

Blair Forrest 5:58

It's is it too good to be true? So the so the challenge, so naturally they've been doing this for years. So if you actually think about the whole life cycle and they're just going to continue to do this, it's like a big conversation of like, where I'm naturally always thinking about is like, where's Amazon gonna be going next? Because they're running into our business, they're taking it, right? Like we are now going, we used to be a supplement to Amazon, and we're going head to head with Amazon. And it's not the one that you usually want to go to the show with, right? So we have to adjust our business model. So Amazon started with AGL, so that's Amazon's global logistics. Okay. We're gonna have a lot of terminology here. So we have AGL, which is Amazon Global Logistics, that's the freight forwarding division to get stock from China over to the USA. Okay. Think of it almost like a flex port. That's like the brokerage and freight moving over. So their vision was that AGL gets it from China and moves it over here, right? AWD bulk stores it, and then FBA has a very minimal inventory workflow. So that you want FBA to be as minimal as possible, and Amazon wants that too. Amazon does not want to be a storage facility. AWD does. So AWD monetizes workflow versus FBA actually is the one that we're going product in and out. Here's the challenge. Amazon AWD came out not too long ago. This over the past 24 months, it's been like where they've been really pushing it. And what happened earlier this year was that, and this is all the things that happened with Q4. This was like the messiest Q4 2024 that we've ever seen for Amazon. The challenge was that that AWD opened up a bunch of new locations, and one of their biggest selling points was no placement fees. Oh.

Jared Ward 7:29

So they have all the Amazon reps. So somebody, AWD, you get a pitch from, it's just like, hey, we won't do any placement fees. Where you might send a bunch of stuff to Amazon and then they'll they'll place it all around. Exactly.

The Q4 Freeze And AWD Overflow

Blair Forrest 7:40

So, like a quick training dock placement fees, there's two scenarios now. This change that's adopted over time. You can send the one warehouse and you'll have to take on the entire placement fee. Amazon basically, with the placement fee, will say, Hey, we're gonna charge you X amount and we have to split your stock across the country. Okay. They used to do this for free. And then they're like, wait a minute, why are why are we paying to split your stock? Right. You're gonna have to do this because they want it naturally the closest place to the customer. Exactly. One day experience. So they'll optimize accordingly. So Jared can send his brand to one warehouse and you'll get hit with a per item placement fee. This ranges from like 30 cents up to a few dollars, depending on the weight tier per item. Or Amazon said, Hey, no worries, you don't have to take on our placement fee, but we're gonna ship it. You have to ship it to five different FCs or more. We'll waive the placement fee, but now you have to ship your stock to Texas, to California, to Seattle, wherever Amazon, you don't get decision of where it's gonna go. Okay. So AWD's goal was saying, hey, you know, you can use a 3PL. If you use a 3PL, you're gonna have to get, you're gonna have to get put in this decision matrix. Either send a one and get killed with placement, or send a five and get killed with freight. Right. Both aren't great ultimatums. So they said, hey, but if you use AD, we'll give you the kickback, which is no placement fee. And if you use AGL, we'll actually give you a discount on the whole program. So they're just saying as more as you use their supply chain, they start to discount the pricing accordingly too. So what happened was that all of the reps during Q2 were saying push AWD. That was the methodology to say, hey, we have these big warehouses, Amazon guys, fill them up. So that's exactly what they did. They filled the warehouses to the brim. And because of this whole no placement fee initiative, the reps were selling everything. Anyone like it's a no-brainer. And because of that, they sold a lot of brands that probably weren't the best fit for AWD. And because of that, during September, they had a massive overflow. They could not keep up with demand because they oversold the capabilities. And because of that, brands were completely frozen for Q4, literally full stock of.

Jared Ward 9:38

I mean, either so eva this isn't my world, it's part of my world. But even I heard about brands who lost $500,000 of inventory. And Amazon just like started selling their stuff too. Like, what what is the the most draconian scenario that you heard about?

Blair Forrest 9:54

So we yes, we had a brand go bankrupt in Q4.

Jared Ward 9:56

Oh my god.

Blair Forrest 9:57

Because all inventory froze. So they they put an absolute halt. So no inbounds and no outbounds. So if you wanted to inbound AWD during Q4, they blocked it. So you couldn't inbound there. If you had current stock in AWD, most brands were trying to use AWD for like multi-channel. Yeah. So like the AWD can technically fulfill like a retail order or like whatever, multi-channel. You can send it to your 3PL after like they were cheap for storage. Yeah. And because of that, all inventory was held. So this merchant that we were talking to that we worked for, he went away from us. So he closed his contract with us and said, hey, we're moving over to AWD because we're a direct competitor. And they froze during Q4, 100% of stock. So they were requesting to get outbounds, but he was a few million dollar seller. Like it's not, you're very low on the prioritization chain. There's no one to talk to. You open up case logs. Oh. And by the time we tried this.

Jared Ward 10:47

Amazon case logs, even me, my experience, Amazon, good luck.

Blair Forrest 10:50

Yeah. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. So that I think what we've learned from that was that brands got killed during that time period. And it's not about like, is AWD a good product? Like it'll improve over time. For sure. I think the challenge is like there's a very select type of brand that AWD can be great for. I think what happened is that brands overindexed on it. The Amazon sales reps oversold the capabilities. Right. And it just created like a cluster. It was like it was a doomsday in the it called the death spiral of like all these combinations together. Q4 peak, oversold capabilities, brands that weren't fit for it, sending into it, their promo of AWD with no placement fees, like all of that created a mess.

Jared Ward 11:30

You were able to capture a lot of business from this though. Because so you have you have such a good LinkedIn presence where you're highlighting a lot of these issues. And you just help brands out. You just like piggyback onto our trucks. Like we'll help you get stuff in. So how did you help out?

Blair Forrest 11:44

So we we go head to head now with it. A couple things to consider with AWD, and I'll talk about placement fee strategy. So it's only available in the US at the moment. It's not available on Canada and internet. They will get there. So they're not competing with us in Canada.

Jared Ward 11:56

Okay. Yet. Thank God.

Placement Fees vs Freight: The Tradeoff

Blair Forrest 11:57

You know, we know where the water's gonna go next. So like we're already planning for it accordingly. But AWD, like people consider it that you can use it for B2B retail like Costco and Walmart. Like they're not able to keep up with those metrics. They're also very specific on like, so they charge it's like 270 a box, which is really expensive. So if you sell like small and light items and it's from China, great solution for you. Right. So those brands like we'll encourage them to use AWD. Like it's a good program and it's it's auto replenishment to Amazon. Like it's a very clean program. The where we've come in is that so we have a few key hubs across the country, and because of the amount of volume that we're sending to Amazon, the challenge when you split it, so every brand wants to split five ways. Because like if you sell we have a brand that sells water bottles or like canned energy drinks, because it's like a 12-pound case, they're paying like $2 an item in placement fees. Wow. Every single item. So if you send a thousand in, you know, a couple thousand dollars in new placement fees. If you send a hundred thousand items, same thing. So we have brands, like we have a cosmetics brand that doesn't do splits, they send a one. It's very small and light, so they only get charged 30 cents an item, but they're sending in a hundred thousand items at a time. Right. It's like thirty thousand dollars in placement fees a month, right? Like this is huge. So the way that we've solved it is that the challenge as you split the stock five different ways is now you have to pay freight to five different DCs, which you'll save placement fee. You're in this prisoner's dilemma. Freight goes up. Yeah, yeah. So placement fee down, freight up, or freight down, placement fee up. And you have to find this intermediate ground. So what we've done from our warehouses is that we have enough volume going to each DC that Amazon allows us to consolidate multiple brands. So we can put multiple brands in the same truck that then bound to their DC. But you know, while TME2 shoes is shipping one pallet to Texas and one to New York, right? We have a full truck going there on a weekly basis. Pack it to the brim. Yeah, so we can pack it. So we'll floor load it too. So that's the other thing that with Amazon, most people do LTL. And just to explain it floor loading, is that like palletized versus non-paletized, right? So picture a literary container, we literally floor to ceiling. Yeah. The entire thing versus if you're sending a truck to Amazon, you can fit 26 pallets.

Jared Ward 14:00

Okay.

Blair Forrest 14:00

We floor load, we might fit 50 pallets. Yeah. In the equivalent, right? Now it's on a cubic footage. Now you can optimize literally, we'll stuff it to the brim until it's there, and then we'll send it to the DC. Got it. And what happens because you're doing that is that, well, because we have the volume going there, because of that, your price is going to go down, right? As we add more brands, total volumes going up, which means our economics go down, which is better for literally the entire economy and like ever all the merchants that we work with. But then the speed in the Amazon. So the other big shit show with Amazon is that how fast you can get into the DC. During Q4, you were averaging like 40 days to inbound, right? From the time that you send it to the time it's checked in. We saw some brands with like 60 plus days. AWD was like 50 to 60 days inbound. So if you wanted to ship it in September, it wasn't getting there until November.

Jared Ward 14:47

So okay, it's it sounds like one of the biggest differences between AMZ Prep and AWD, working with Amazon in general, is you can pick up the phone and call Blair. Like you can pick up the phone and call your you know, one of the employees at AMZ Prep. And you can get a pretty good answer on where your shit is. Yeah, like I think that's the biggest challenge, right?

Blair Forrest 15:04

Like, so there's a few brands we'll encourage AWD because it's calculated. Or if they sell like really big and bulky stuff, like AWD can sometimes be a really good program. But like eight out of 10 merchants, it traditionally isn't a good program because they need that level of flexibility. Like these are like sit very similar to the luminous category. Like these are like five to fifty million dollar companies, they're omnichannel, they're omnipresent. It's not all, it's not all Amazon. Yeah, and the it's this idea of like what we've learned over time is like don't put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah, and it's just like risk diversification and control, right? So if you have all your stock with AGL to AWD to FBA, they literally have your entire fate. Like you are you're weighing, and if you're selling only on Amazon, amazing.

Jared Ward 15:47

Like and if you have an issue, if you're if your stock isn't getting checked in, like, dude, good luck. Your toast. Good luck to you.

Blair Forrest 15:53

There's no one there. Like, go for a warehouse tour. They won't allow you. Like, you're you you are such a small fish in a big sea. Right. If you know that going into it and you're calculated, AWD can be a great supplemental program. It's when brands say, we don't want a warehouse anymore, we're just gonna put it all there. And now they're tied, right? And when it's good, it's good, but when it's bad, it's really bad.

Jared Ward 16:14

It's funny the ironic part because your your company name is AMZ Prep, but you guys service a bunch of amazing modern omnichannel brands. Who are some of the brands that you guys service who are like super forward-thinking?

Blair Forrest 16:25

Yeah, so there's there's a few. The so I I think one of the ones that we're seeing, I want to think of a good one.

Jared Ward 16:32

Oh, like Emma or the Sleep Company Emma Space.

Blair Forrest 16:35

8 Sleep, yeah, 8 Sleep for example.

Jared Ward 16:38

I think everybody knows those brands.

Blair Forrest 16:39

Yeah, okay, 8 Sleep, yeah. So so one of the I think the most exciting brands, 8 Sleep is doing some really cool stuff. You have you used 8 Sleep? I I've heard about it. I have some friends that use it.

Jared Ward 16:48

I want it.

Consolidation, Floor Loading, And Speed

Blair Forrest 16:49

I'm realizing they're actually interesting because they're they're taking a forward approach of going like D2C only. So over time we've seen it's like Amazon's actually becoming controversial for some brands. Yeah. Which like I wildly disagree with. I have a very like I'm very opinionated on like that is a that is an ill approach, and they think that that's cannibalizing their brand. And and there's very specific nuances where I agree, but most of the time, like that D2C customer versus your Amazon customer, much different. And they believe that like if you put your product there, all you're gonna do is screw yourself. But eight sleep is cool because like their D2C presence is incredible, yeah. And they're like they're dominating social. Same with brands like Seed or AG1 or any of these called like multi-channel, omni-channel brands, like they're they're doing some really cool stuff. So, how is AMZ prep thinking about inventory for these brands that you guys service? It's changing over time. I I think when we were predominantly Amazon, it was a lot easier. It was very single focus. You you guys do this all day. Like it was it's a very isolated factor, and because of it, it's much easier to do it. But by no means are we like an inventory, like we we're not the ledger, right? We're we're a function of it, but because of that, it's actually been one of our biggest challenges. I think that's why what you guys are doing is super cool, the way that we're integrating in, where you guys actually integrate right to our WMS. Yeah. And you become almost like the cockpit for these brands.

Jared Ward 18:08

Well, because we talked about this before. So modern brands, they're becoming more omnichannel, multiple distribution, not just Amazon. I mean, we're talking like different three PLs and in different countries. So what Luminous does, that AMZ Prep or 3PLs don't do, is like we're like a true IMS or system of record. So, like that transfer order and adding cost and allocating that cost to your inventory and pushing that to your accounting system, like QuickBooks or Zero or Net Suite, that that's what we do.

Blair Forrest 18:34

Um, because I think one of the most valuable things that we've seen with working with you guys is that one of our biggest challenges from an impacting Ames's revenue perspective and also customer experience is that if a brand goes out of stock, right, which is like it's detrimental in all parts. This is a place that I get really excited about what you guys are building, is that like brands have that visibility across the entire grid, right? Across multi-warehouse, multi-DC, like there's actually because of that, the brands are like forward thinking, right? Versus in the past, they'd actually look at us to go, hey, why are we at a stock? And I'm like, Well, guy, you didn't you didn't inbound. Like it, yeah, there was nothing, you know, we're we're there's nothing we can control that we can give you the visibility, but we're not to the point where we're luminous. So I I think this is where I get super excited about where if we can optimize for out of stock, our brands are happier. A and these revenue is going up because we're fulfilling more orders, and we end up working our way up to supply chain. Like, usually we might only be doing fulfillment in Canada or you like we want to win more of the business, and also like we want to expand them to new channels. The challenge with us expanding them to five new channels or then opening up retail is that their inventory becomes a bit of a shit show.

Jared Ward 19:37

Yeah. And it gets it gets to a certain point. We see this with three pls all the time, or partners like AMC Prep, where the brand will just put everything on the 3PL, where just like, man, we need you to allocate the inventory correctly. And it's like, right, at a certain point, it's like, guys, you you you you're managing your you're you're managing your inventory on spreadsheets. Like you need to be the ones making the decisions and allocating the inventory correctly. Definitely. And that's what we do. So like Luminous handles wholesale role. We we will plug into the three pill, we'll plug in the AMZ prep system. We'll we will help you do your multi-warehouse inventory management. We'll help you make those decisions.

Blair Forrest 20:10

And so so we just spoke to a brand at the meetup, massive, massive brand called Winland Foods. Yeah. And so we we do all their fulfillment. So so now we're we're going deep because they were predominantly B2B. Now they're entering the D2C space. And so we're doing all the logistics. And for them, they had two challenges. They're like, well, Amazon's a piece of it, but we're going multi-channel. So we're opening up Walmart, we're also doing it in Canada. We want to go as deep into the D2C world because they're very like homestead B2B. Right. And they have like an old big software, you know, they're they're big fish. Yeah. So when we were talking to meetup, right, like we can control the inventory and we can replenish, but they wanted they wanted that one layer up, right? The consolidated across all different places in the D2C. That that's where you guys are gonna solve. Exactly. Yep.

Who Should Use AWD And Who Shouldn’t

Jared Ward 20:52

So cool. Yeah, so cool. I'm sold. So I'm always curious talking to founders, like because typically it's like a David versus Goliath story. So with Luminous, it's like us versus Net Suite, like fucking Larry Ellison, like a multi-billion dollar company. We can't play how they do. I'm curious, who are the Goliaths in your business?

Blair Forrest 21:11

So it's changed over time. And I think what's super cool is like as we've progressed, you guys have probably seen it too, right? Like who you were benchmarked against year one is a lot different. Now you guys are up against NetSuite. Yeah. Which is like that's the biggest and baddest in the world. Like it, you are going against the top dogs. I think this year is kind of our changing year where we've started to see like now we're put inside of RFQs, which is like a ready for quote, right? Basically, a big brand that wants the business, they'll send a formal RFQ to us and a bunch of different players. So in the past, we were competing against you know, Jack's 3PL in Kentucky or someone's mom and pop prep center in in Idaho, whatever it is. Now we're playing against call it like stored, uh shit bob, red stack fulfillment. These are Red Stack, these are the biggest and baddest in the in the world, and they've raised hundreds of millions of dollars. And for Like what we're celebrating is truly it feels like a day of Goliath. Like, we we spend all these years like banging on the doors to go like we just want to swing at bat, right? So, what I think is super cool, what's happening this year is like we're in the room, right? Like, we're going into this, and like we just had a big RFQ that you and I were talking about with the brand. We'll we'll say it if we end up winning there. And we're up against stored Shopify fulfillment, UPS, shipbob, red stag.

Jared Ward 22:25

Oh my goodness.

Blair Forrest 22:26

And I'm looking toe to toe to go like, oh, we're there. Like we're in the same room now, right? And what I thought before, where I was like, oh, they were out of they're playing in a different caliber. I was like, oh, I'm here. Like I'm I'm kicking down the damn door. And like, we're not winning the business yet. There's some business we're winning, but like our celebration is like we're even invited to the conversation. We're we're at the dinner table, you know, we're not hosting yet, but we're eating the damn dish and we're gonna get there.

Jared Ward 22:52

And I think that's super cool. You're not playing the same game that Stored is, though. You haven't raised hundreds of millions of dollars. What I've noticed is anybody who is able to get a seat at the table, they do something differently. What are you doing differently to grow your business in Stored?

Omnichannel Inventory And Luminous

Blair Forrest 23:07

You know what? I I think a lot of the buying is happening because we are the Davers Goliath. And we're we're really shouting to go like, you give us that damn chance, right? And I think what we end up doing is like we're creating this level of like polarizing differences between us, right? Like, you know, it's it's a if-or, right? So, you know, you can go with the store to the world and they have a great product and solution, but that's a that's a private equity, right? Like that's they've raised hundreds of millions. There's a you know the path of what needs to happen next. And we've seen the journey of time of what happens with businesses like that. And they've raised so much money, so they they have a very specific growth goal that have to get met. We're going for high touch, we're going for this hyper community. We banned customer service tickets. So we put our flag in the stone to go like, we're not using whatever the Zendesks of the world and and what we banned it. We're like, that's just not us because we're just we have to take a different approach. So I think it's been a difference of, you know, it depends on what the brand wants, but our brand, I think, is just starting to we're finally at a point where we're there. And I think our brand's starting to pick up. I think Blair's storytelling, I think super great. I think us doing tactical things like this with Luminous, like, you know, we're doing things that they can't, right? We're we're trying to be like the unscalable because the unscalable is traditionally what works. What you guys are doing with video, that's not scalable, but it's so damn good. That's what works, and like that's the hard shit that needs to get done. Right. So I don't know. I feel like it it's a mix of you know, 10 night 10 it's a mix of 10-year overnight success, right? Which is which is what you guys are doing too. It's a combination of that, you know, just drumming and making noise for years that like we're finally getting a swing.

Jared Ward 24:40

What is it? That's something Hormosy says there's no one silver bullet, it's a hundred. That's exactly bronze BBs.

Blair Forrest 24:46

Yes. I I think there'll be a point in the next three years where we're winning all those. Yeah. That like we get into a place of like then, you know, we got our foot in the door now. Now we need our infrastructure to follow. Like now it's about building the spine that like we can compete from a brand of marketing and experience. Now we have to be the operational to go head to head with a sword. Right. And that's a hard game, right? You know, when they have a hundred million, we have two. We're just playing, they're playing at a different caliber.

Jared Ward 25:12

So I love it, dude. It gets me fired up.

Blair Forrest 25:14

Someone's gonna do it. I'm just like I'm like, I'm like, someone's gonna go and and we'll we'll put our sword in the sand. Mark by word, we'll win that business, but it will come with time. So, what do you think the media company looks like if we're gonna build it from scratch? What what do you think the playbook is about?

Jared Ward 25:28

I think we we you never sell out to tech. In fact, like I one of my one of my rules would be like I will never mention Luminous. Ever. Like, oh, only if it just happens to come up. Sure, I might like throw it in there. But like it's the operator has to be the hero. Like, I never will shill other tech. Like that would be one of my rules. When you start doing a podcast where like the podcast is with tech providers, right? I don't know, like that's when it's like it's different. Yeah, you can't, you can't, you can do that. People do it and they do it tastefully, but like I feel like that's what that's what operators hate. Like, they hate getting it.

Blair Forrest 26:06

I think operators can read through the bullshit too. Like, that's their entire job, is to like read through the fluff of marketing, yes, analytics, whatever it is, to go like we have to fulfill this.

Jared Ward 26:15

What actually is this? How is this actually happening? Exactly. So, and what would be the first couple topics? So, for me, obviously I come from a different my lens is gonna be different from yours. So I come from a like expansion to omni channel and multi-warehouse. Like the this concept of do use a three pill, do you not? When do you expand to wholesale? What happens? I'm not what happens logistically when you start selling big volume in FBA? What happens when you get your first Walmart deal? What happens when you're at a hundred doors versus a thousand doors? And I'm not talking about the marketing stuff, I don't give a shit about that. No, I'm talking about the person who is negotiating with China and has to freaking like send send that inventory batch to like seven different spots. Like, how do you do that? Like, show us your spreadsheet. What formulas are you doing? Is there a so what software did you choose? Why? Why'd you choose it? Like, I I want to get into like that tactical stuff because that's what everybody's asking. Section 321, like somebody, you're you're selling backpacks, you're you're fulfilling from Mexico. No, break that down for us. How did you do it? Who do you choose? Like, no sponsorships there, just like, right? How did you do this?

Blair Forrest 27:23

How much money did you save? Do you think you figure out the in-person stuff too simultaneously? Like, how do how do we build a community around this? You have to, it has to be paired with great events, I feel like, which you do super well. Like, but I think now it's about getting the operators in the room. I think that's gonna be the key. And have you found that to be challenging? Yeah, it's been super like we can get a founder in the room, no problem. We got we got the founder of a $400 million coffee brand on the first event on this like half-assed live webinar that we didn't even record. We don't have content for it. Like we even recorded afterwards. And like the fact that we got that, like we can get them in the room.

Competing With Giants And Winning RFQs

Jared Ward 27:59

Right. I I think what we founders like to be on podcasts, they like to speak about their story, which is normally about fundraising, revenue, growth, a little bit of vanity, but like, but cool. Like they they know how to play the game. The operators don't know. They're like, they're in the basement.

Blair Forrest 28:12

I think that's what we have to we have to narrow that focus down to be like, this is for the operators, by the operators. Yeah. Because I think that's the ones that we have to be going after here. Like, you know, the COO in the gunk or the head of logistics or the VP of supply chain. Like, that is an ugly, hard business. And they only want to hear from the best in class.

Jared Ward 28:31

You know, it's so I talked to Emerson Hammer about this. He was the former COO of Nomada or like VP of Office, whatever. Like he was operating the brand. He was he was the guy behind the spreadsheets. And he what he talked about, he was like, he's like, Look, I never go to events because I'm always somebody's always trying to sell me. And I'm just kind of like, they'll pitch me on what they do. I'm just like, okay, but how does that really work? But he what he was saying was like operators will naturally like find other operators in the area, and they'll just like he was talking about how you know what's really funny, like the operators, like nomadic and all the other backpack brands in Utah and the United States, they had each other's numbers. They were on like a group text, they weren't a group Slack, they would ask it, hey, we're we're importing from this and the hey, do you know any manufacturers in V? They would just help each other out, but it was just like behind the scenes. So I feel like it has to be that type of.

Blair Forrest 29:21

Does a really good job of it? Startups. Have you heard of them?

Jared Ward 29:24

Yes, I met with them.

Blair Forrest 29:25

They do really good. Yeah. I I think what you and I are missing is that even though we both have operator background, we we come from a derivative of a brand perspective. And even though we are clear that I don't give a shit about the logos, like that that's not the intent of this whatsoever, it still comes from that place.

Jared Ward 29:42

Yeah.

Blair Forrest 29:42

There has to be a way to like what I think startups did really well is like they got the ex COO of like seed. Yeah to come join them, me one of the co-founders. Maybe there's a play though that we have to be them, we need them to join. Like, we need that buy-in from one of the big dog nomadic, super coffee. It has to be someone to be like, you're bought into this doing it with us. Because when they come, it's from a much different perspective that I think even doesn't matter. We'll still get the foot in the door, but we're getting the founders. Right. We want that like head of supply chain. And I think it needs to come from someone at the same the same frequency.

Jared Ward 30:15

Well, are we just are we just the wrong people to start it? I guess is that is that it? I mean, I've always said like I the biggest the biggest reason for me to like start e-commerce brands, like all the brands I wanted to start on the side, is to stay in the game. So I can say, like, no, I'm I'm not just a tech provider. Like, I'm also, but then you divide your focus and you're fucked. I don't know. Yeah, do you feel like a fraud talking about it? They go like even though I I have legitimate experience, I've operated brand, I've operated so many, like Qualtry. We own multiple brands. Uh I think two on this. They chew on this. They back it up. Ron is like, he is literally operating and running a brand that's scaling to nine figures. Like, that's I think that's the difference.

Blair Forrest 30:55

But I don't know, man. Like, I don't think your COO operator wants to do things like this. Do I think they get excited about it? Yes. But this you have a whole team behind. This isn't like this isn't that you just get on and shoot, right? Like, you guys are I I've been with you guys. I mean, Bunky at Jared's place the past couple days, and they've been so kind to host me, but like I'm seeing behind the scenes of like you are all in on content.

Jared Ward 31:16

Yeah.

Blair Forrest 31:17

I've never seen some like more team the past three days. That is like all I've been seeing you guys do. And your entire world is revolved around like getting that piece of content. It's wild. So and I don't, I don't think an operator wants to do it I think we can get the opportunity to be a part of it, but that I don't think that's in your DNA. I don't think that's in theirs. So I I I think it's not that they can do in a week. It has to be this like marriage between the two. They're the foothold into that ecosystem and where they're the support. I think what we're seeing, our opinion, our entrance, and also the DNA of like how do we create a media company around this?

Jared Ward 31:50

I do think operators want to, they want to be heard, and they want to be made here. I do think that. They'll never admit that. But I think that's gonna be the key is like bringing in an operator and kind of being like, yeah, no, fuck that founder. Yeah, like Jimmy, like, no, like who's the one who really did? Like, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying, like, that's probably the light that they want to get painted in. Like, right? That's that's what I think. And if we can find a compelling way to do that, that's who's the where they're not being sold, but they're it's we're bringing them in and we're telling their story, like the shit show behind the scenes that they're the ones, yeah. Fuck it, Jimmy sold a thousand new doors, but he had to figure it out. You know, here's what we did to actually make it.

Blair Forrest 32:34

Who's the number two? Yeah, because that's who you need. Who's the biggest, baddest like operator you know? Who do we need to like get to actually be a part of this?

Jared Ward 32:42

Oh, that's a good question.

Blair Forrest 32:43

Like the hardest one, like out of reach from both of us, but we have to get them here. That's a good one. It has to be a big brand.

Jared Ward 32:50

Yeah. Ooh, I need to think about that.

Blair Forrest 32:53

But that's that's who we need. Yeah. We need that person to be like bought into this idea, and I think that would support building this whole community. That would. I agree. You have one of the own, basically.

High‑Touch Service And Community Strategy

Jared Ward 33:03

But it's gotta be like, yeah, the biggest, baddest, like the COO. Yeah, but no, no, you know, you know who we need? We need uh what are those guys, though? The water filter, shower filters, just the the Oh Julie, Julie, Julie, Julie, J-O-L-I, Julie. Because those guys are the poster children for like scaling a scrappy startup, minimal skews, omnichannel. Like everybody thinks they did it right. Do you know who that is? Do you know who the person is? I don't know.

Blair Forrest 33:34

I just know they've done it with like four people. You know the other one that I think would be incredible? Have you heard of Congo Brands? Yeah. So Congo Brands has Alani New 3D, Prime Nutrition. They own all those companies. That yeah. And they dominated Prime alone. Like, who's the number two?

Jared Ward 33:54

Yeah, it's not Logan Paul KSI. No, who's the who's the motherfucker running it?

Blair Forrest 33:59

Like, we've scale prime in Alani New simultaneously. Like, who was that person?

Jared Ward 34:03

Because you get that person badass. That's badass.

Blair Forrest 34:06

Every channel globally within that fast.

Jared Ward 34:09

That you shouldn't have to do. I don't know who it is, but we have to find out who is. Whoever did that, like we will pay you.

Blair Forrest 34:15

We'll pay you a lot.

Jared Ward 34:16

We'll pay you a lot to do it. Yeah. That's like where all the sponsorship goes, too. It's just like funding him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we get Walmart just to fund. But do you agree with me that like it has to be tasteful? It can't be like, here's a 25-minute plug on Luminous. Here, let me pull up the soft. Like, like, no, it can't. It's gotta be like very tasteful.

Blair Forrest 34:34

I still have a hard time talking about AMZ. You just ask me about AMZ. I have a hard time. It just comes from a place of like, I'm like, fuck, I don't want this to come off wrong. Yeah. And like I want to be intentful and I want to be in like all the meetups we do, my whole team is like, why are you not pitching? Like, I don't pitch the when we were there, that was the most I've ever talked about AMZ at an event. I feel like I'm comfortable doing it because it's a lot. I want you to feel like you're inclusive and you're involved. And within three minutes of the event, I'm talking about how you can do fulfillment. Like if it comes naturally, it comes naturally. But I'm like, I just don't think that that's the right of approach. I'm like, build it and they will come. I don't think I need to show to the mirrors, but I agree. My marketing team says otherwise. Yeah.

Jared Ward 35:10

See, that that's where we agree. We're on the same page there. Like, I I don't. I mean, it was funny. There, there was somebody at the event that asked me afterwards, or just like, what why don't you talk about Luminous at all? It's just like, well, like you'll you'll find out it about it eventually. Like, I don't, I don't, you don't need to Damien from Pillocoube. He was just like, why don't you like I I introdu you to this person? Like you they said you've met up and you still haven't even told them about Luminous. It's just like they'll find us eventually. Like that's that's content. Like if I'm doing if everything is content, like one day they'll ask me, wait, so I just saw this video, like what's luminous? And then I can go.

Blair Forrest 35:47

It's like like jab jab jab and then right hook afterwards. Yeah. Do enough jabs. You can do the right hook when you want, but that ask needs to be powerful, and you can't do it often. If you do the the right hook too many times, you your audience, I'm even very calculated with LinkedIn. Like, we do not talk about AMZ. And that's why you're so damn good at LinkedIn. Yeah, but and we craft a story around AMZ, but you won't say, like, if I do, I'm very there's a very specific takeaway, but nine out of ten times, it's like it is never, hey, use us or try us or this. I'm talking about a story of where we dropped the ball or a lead magnet that we thought would work, whatever it might be. So it's just a different game.

Jared Ward 36:22

Well, even what you just so something that you said, it's the exact same energy with Luminous. I remember when you're like, you know, we'll we'll dive in technically with the brands and we'll do like, you know, we'll do the comparisons, and we might tell them, hey, go with AWD, that's the best fit for your business. It's the same thing for us. If like if we do a deep dive and it's okay, you need lot tracking, you need this, you need this, you need this type of costing. We might tell them, like, hey, actually, you know, you need deep manufacturing, you should probably go with Net Suite. Like, we don't have that. We should you should go with Sin7. You know the coolest part though?

Blair Forrest 36:53

It's like they want you more when you do that. Yeah. I'm like, and I'm like, you're not a good fit. And they're like, why am I not a good fit? It's like, it's like the pretty girl who rejected you. I'm like, what do you why'd you do that? And it almost makes you want them more. Yeah. You're like this idea of like, oh, well, like I can't have you. Now I'm like, okay, well, I want to be sign me up. I don't care those guys. I don't want to find it. I need I need to go with Luminous now.

Jared Ward 37:15

Yeah, no, we'd be a good partner. Like, we we'll help you build out the service, we'll help you build out the microphone. Exactly. No, we're not, we're not gonna, we're not gonna build that out this year. Like, uh, we'll we'll wait.

Blair Forrest 37:24

I think if we get 10 really good people for this community, I think that will like create an echo effect of if we get 10 like core binds that like drive this community with us, 10 like operators, I think that would create you know, you know what it'll be?

Jared Ward 37:37

It's capturing the essence of what already happens behind the scenes, which is like, sure, we we do our QA thing, but we it has to be staged nicely for content so it can be distributed. But it's the big bad operator, and then like 10 operators in the audience like asking real questions.

Building An Operator‑First Media Engine

Blair Forrest 37:54

I think you have to look at two. Or else like when we did the events, we we took like a hundred, but then you have like a brain that's at half a million saying, How do I launch a bit? And then the CEO's like, guys, like I'm gonna challenge, we are not the same. Yeah, and the pains I'm going through are not the the same as that. This is like high-level execution for Costco. Like, it's like it's just different questions. But I think you and I need to be okay with only 10 people coming to a meetup. Yeah. Right? Like that's I think when you isolate it to this narrow of a boat. I think we need to, and I think that's something you and I need to stomach because we're a lot about noise and volume and impressions and all things that we want to see. You know, we're upset with the amount of people that come to a meetup. Like, but I think in that ecosystem, we have to be able to be okay with like nine people in a slack group.

Jared Ward 38:38

See, that actually sounds badass right there. It's like, imagine if you have a room of like it's me and you, the badass operator, like and then like five COOs or VP of ops, like the real people behind the scenes. Imagine that round table. Imagine that dinner. And we're just facilitating that conversation. That lends itself well to content, but we'd have to create it where like they they feel natural. They don't because they're not as natural as us on camera. Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel that just slap on this mic, don't worry about it. Like, we're just talking here.

Blair Forrest 39:08

Like, I I honestly I I also think you just like pay to get people in the door. Yeah. Maybe that's a crazy way to do it, but you know, some of these COs like don't want to do anything, they don't want to come out.

Jared Ward 39:17

I think that's a good idea. I think about it. Even if we just get five people, the six one, a thousand dollars each per showing, like five thousand bucks. We spend five thousand bucks on some dumbass event that doesn't do anything.

Blair Forrest 39:27

The CEO is not getting flown out, yeah. Like they're not getting that love, like they're not getting the Forbes article, they're not getting the fly out to talk about like like the CEO gets flown out. Their COO doesn't get any love. No one knows, no one can tell that the name of the COO. You'll know the CEO and you'll know all of them, but that next layer down, like, no one knows his name. Yeah, we give that person love and we fly them out and we give them the whole nine yards, like I think they'll be excited about it.

Jared Ward 39:51

I agree. I think that's a that's how we try it. So first we gotta find the big dog, then find the other four, like just one tier below, but also big dogs. Pay pay to play. But honestly, like we will spend, like, I'm willing to spend $3,000 on an event. So it just imagine it like that. It's okay. Well, you already did it, right? Yeah. Like you already did it. Well, imagine that outcome versus oh that that would be incredible if we did that.

Blair Forrest 40:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Imagine like you had like the Ben from AG1. Ah, that'd be sick. And he said, and there were like four other guys at like the next stage of growth, and they're just like the only other challenge we have to consider is uh what we've noticed, and I think we've learned from Ben and the like incredible operators, but there's a lot of things they can't say. Yeah, the only challenge that I and it's I get it. Um, I don't know how we balance that out because that's just kind of the nature of just fine people who don't give a fuck about NDAs, they just go for it basically. Yeah, you need X Congo basically.

Jared Ward 40:45

Here's so here's the Kopackers that we used. Here's the shit show behind the scenes, yeah. I like it. Okay, let's do it. I'm down. All right. Follow up next time. Peace.

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